Pre Season Tourney

[RickLutz]

Guys,
The problems I envision with a preseason tourney is
a. It takes a few weeks of playing to get into top baseball shape(like major league spring training) so why would we want to invite top tier, ranked teams before we've all had a few games to warm up.
b. If everyone in the league wants to be in the pre season tourney what are we gonna have a 16 team tournament that lasts 2 weeks. Think about it if I bring in 6-7 nationally ranked teams and 9 out of our 10 want in thats 16 teams. The point of tourneys is to play teams you are not gonna get a chance to play. I don't want to play Teaneck in a preseason tourney I want to play someone who I don't ever get to play. Plus that early in the season who has enough pitchers that can go 7 innings for such a large tourney. Most of these national quality teams don't want to play in a touney before memorial day anyway they want games to get into baseball shape.
c. I think what we need is to start our season in early to mid may. Not cater to people who won't play until they have all their players either back from school, vacation, work conflicts, etc. We say the season starts this date either play of forfeit. Then set up multiple tourneys in June and early July that either we host or go to . Like danny said said their are dozens of tourneys across the USA that are always looking for teams. And if you want to set up a tourney start in late January making calls and contacts.
d. We could have a preseason tourney amonst ourselves in a double elim format. thats more realistic.
Just a thought

[bobbyk23]

Amen Rick!

Teams need to get enough players to play early in the season who aren't in college.

There is enough roster jockeying so that this shouldn't be too difficult for ten teams to do.

That way we could play a few more games as well!

A pre-season tournament amongst the league would be best......teams not from Hackensack could guage where they are and what they need to improve!

Bob

[rvones]

That was my point...have a tourney in the beginning of the the year, just our league.

[hacktroasts]

Hey Guys,

I'm going to throw my thoughts into the ring because I want to see the league do well & not fold up like the Met League. And I do see it heading in the same direction as the Met League. For what it is worth, here are my ideas:

Why isn't there voting on every issue? 1 team, 1 vote, every league official gets 1 vote. When I was in the league, this was the biggest problem that I had. Why are 1 or 2 people making all of the decisions. You should vote on ALL league officials. Give them a 3 year term. I've said it before, IT IS YOUR LEAGUE, take it back!!!!!!

Playoffs need to be at a better location than North Haledon. A few years ago, I think Cresskill played Ramapo Valley for the championship @ North Haledon. I took my son up to the game, we were 2 of a total of 12 people at the game, 12 people!!!! Find a more central location.

No more "Host team gets a bye". 6 or 8 best teams get in.

Press the AABC to change the format, pool play stinks & isn't fair. If there are too many teams then have smaller regions with double elim. Hack. beats a team 3-2, goes 2&1 & the team they beat goes 2&1 but scored more runs & they go to World Series, THAT IS HORRIBLE!!!! I'm sure Hack isn't the only one biatching.

I'm a Hackensack guy, so keep that in mind, you can't keep letting teams fold up into other teams, Hoboken, Belleville. Making it too easy to say, instead of recruiting let's call Hackensack (one of the best teams) & bring over our best guys & that is our best chance to go to the world series. You have to do everything possible to keep teams going, send them players, help out with money, etc.

Beg the other league(Stan Musial?) to come back. Whatever the problem was, FIX IT!!!!! It was easy before, 2 to 3 teams per year would fold, no big deal, we'll just bring up 3 teams from the Stan Musial. You lost that safety net, THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM!!!! What if you lose 2 teams this year? You have 2 to 3 years before you have 5 teams playing each other 7 times a year. The Met League & the Majors Met League have always been about 1 man teams. Meaning, that one person leaves & the team is done. Bob Muggeo @ Cresskill, Bob Potts @ Clifton Phillies, Russ Purdue @ Wayne A's, Ridgewood? Teaneck? Franklin Lakes? Not sure on the last 3 but I think you get my point. You need to find these guys some help. Find someone who may be interested in taking the team if that person left or that they could take a day off. You need to plan ahead. Don't wait until Feb 15th for that team to say we are done & then there are no alternatives.

Forget about the Bergen Record they are not going to cover the league. Call the small little papers, maybe? You need to create some buzz to get people back out watching local baseball again. That Hack tourney was great, keep doing stuff like that. Majors-Met league All-Stars playing the Jackals? Probably not but worth a shot. Are you putting out stats, league leaders, career stats, etc. Everyone loves reading about their stats. League award get together at end of year? MAKE THE LEAGUE PROFESSIONAL!!!! Do it the right way

My last year, we had lost to Ridgefield Park in the finals, RP was going to the mini region @ North Haledon with 3 other teams, host NH, a shore team & Virginia team. I stop at the field to watch RP & find out that the Virginia team bailed out. They then invited the 2nd place team from the jersey shore to come up. That team with alum, bats got 1 hit in 2 games, THEY SUCKED!!!! 1 hit with tin bats in 2 games but my biggest question was why weren't the Hack Troasts invited. At least a 1 game playoff with that 2nd place shore team to see who goes into the mini region. Rules are changed & made on the fly so I understand where Teaneck was coming from when they were not invited to that NABF.

I want nothing but the best for the league & hope that my son some day can play in the league.

Thanks

Jon Vatcher

[demenna]

Vatch,
As one of your former players and close friend, I beg you to come back and help save the league... All your thoughts listed above is just another example that we need some solid direction in which way to go, and with your experience and knowledge of the league and its players I think you can step in and give us (the League) what we need...

Mark DeMenna

...Anyone else is free to chime in on this topic..

[RickLutz]

Charlie Commisky and the 1919 league owners appointed Kenesaw Mountain Landis to save baseball. I say we appoint Jon Vatcher to save the Met League.
Rick Lutz

[bbellz]

if Demenna had his way, we would play a 10 game schedule, then go straight to the World Series

[bobbyk23]

Good to hear your input Vatch!!

I second the motion Rick!

Bob Khalil

[thiem20]

It's been a couple of years since my last involvement, but my days of observing, playing and coaching go back to when the Bergen County Baseball League and North Jersey Twilight league co-existed prior to the Met league merger in the 60's.

There is so much of what Jon Vatcher said that should be seriously considered if you want the League to prosper, and rather than re-hash it all, please throw the following thoughts into your hopper for consideration:

1 - each team should be represented at league meetings by a minimum of two people, preferably a business rep and a player rep

2 - criteria should be set as to the awarding of franchises in the league with primary factors being playing facilities, prior involvement in recruiting players, and financial credibility

3 - I agree that the Record has long since forgotten about adult baseball, so to increase the public awareness, use your best asset, the players to run clinics in the communities, where you have franchises or want to establish franchises. Even with a modest cost to the participants it becomes a fundraiser and also establishes good will in the respective communities and at the same time gets you into the local weekly paper with a positive spin

4 - establish a college contact committee to reach out to college coaches and recruit players for the summer; while many of the elite go to Cape Cod, Shenandoah Valley, etc. there are many seeking strong leagues to play in; as a codicil to that effort, create a group of employers who might be able to afford summer employment to some of these players who choose to come here to play

5 - if you are not already doing so, sell advertising space on the website, sporting goods companies, bat companies, local restaurants, etc. any monies raised can be applied to overall fixed costs such as insurance, baseballs, registration fees with the national organizations, and, if successful enough, to umpiring costs

6 - reach out to league alumni who might be willing to assist in committee work even if they are unable to devote the time to coaching, etc; some suggestions on committees, Finance Committee, Special Events Committee, Alumni Committee, Web-Site Committee, Expansion Committee, Wives/Girl Friends Auxiliary (maybe they could run a fundraiser of some sort; what can be done is only limited by imagination.

7 - Expand in the "In-Season" Tournament options, I agree with Rick that playing someone from out of the immediate area helps broaden your perspective on where your team stands

8 - Reach out to establish a "Southern Division" with teams that meet your criteria; there is much talent down in Essex/Union Counties untapped by the League.

Don't know if any of this coincides with your thinking, but I too would like to see the League prosper. It is not easy to develop a team, or a League structure that withstands the test of time. From my many years of experience, tapping into into as much expertise as possible, and developing a strong financial base are the keys.

Thanks for letting me share and good luck with your efforts.

Bob Thiemer
[e-mail]

[AHEARN]

THE ONE MAIN POINT THAT HAS TO BE CHANGED IS FOR EACH TEAM TO VOTE ON LEAGUE RULES AND LEAGUE MATTERS. HOW MANY LEAGUE MEETINGS WERE THERE THIS YEAR AFTER THE SEASON STARTED??? ZERO!! BASICALLY THE TEAMS SUBMIT A CHECK AND THAT'S IT! NO OTHER INPUT THE REST OF THE YEAR. EACH TEAM SHOULD HAVE A TEAM REP THAT APPEARS AT MEETINGS WHERE THE TEAM REPS DISCUSS THE ISSUES OF THE LEAGUE AND THEY DECIDE THE FUTURE OF THE LEAGUE.


AS FOR THE PLAYOFFS BEING IN NORTH HALEDON, WHERE ELSE WOULD THEY BE? THE ONLY OTHER OPTION I SEE IS HACKENSACK. AND SCOTT BY HIS OWN ADMISSION SAID THE SUN MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY THERE BEFORE 7:30 PM. GRANTED THE LIGHTS AT NORTH HALEDON LEAVE ALOT TO BE DESIRED, BUT IT IS THE BEST FIELD WE HAVE. WE CAN'T PLAY AT THE HIGHER SEED BECAUSE ONLY A COUPLE OF TEAMS HAVE LIGHTS, AND MOST TEAMS DON'T HAVE THE FIELD FLEXIBILITY TO BOOK GAMES ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.


WHY WOULD THE "MUSIAL" LEAGUE WANT US? THEY HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY IN THEIR ACCOUNT, THEY HAVE 16 TEAMS ALREADY, THE MANAGERS RUN THEIR LEAGUE, UNLIKE US, AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO FACE THE BEST TEAMS IN THE AREA. THEY HAVE NO NEED FOR US, WE NEED THEM MORE THAN THEY NEED US...AND THEY KNOW IT. THEY DON'T GAIN ANYTHING FROM A MERGER WITH US. THEY GET 2 SPOTS IN THE NABF, WE ONLY HAVE 1. YES WE GOT 2 SPOTS IN THE AABC THIS YEAR, BUT OBVIOUSLY MANY PEOPLE ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE AABC RULES.


I THINK THE MANAGERS IN THE LEAGUE NEED TO GET MORE POWER AS TO WHAT GOES ON WITH THIS LEAGUE. THEY ARE THE ONES RUNNING THE LEAGUE AND GETTING THE PLAYERS TO PLAY IN IT. FOR THEM TO HAND OVER A CHECK AND THAT'S IT, IS CRAZY. THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS BOGOTA IS NO LONGER AROUND. THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE TEAMS SHOULD BE THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THE LEAGUE, JUST MY OPINION.



ED

[RickLutz]

Thats never gonna happen Ed, my friend, you know it, I know it, so nabf , forming our own league is the way to go. AABC will go theway of Scott Baio, the boys from CHiPs, Kit (the car from Knight Rider), and the A-Team.

[demenna]

and Rick's marriage....

[higs]

That's classic.

[hacktroasts]

Bob Theimer, great to hear from you......a real baseball guy & a big loss when you left the league. You would be the perfect commissioner!!!!

Ed...read your 3rd paragraph, take out a couple of thoughts & that was the Met League talking 5 years ago. The North Jersey Majors was in a position of strength & the Met League was dying. WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST 4 YEARS!!!! You have to stop the bleeding now & the first step is everyone voting on every issue.

As for the playoffs, what about Lyndhurst? I know some of you will say there goes the old Met League guy but the field is nice, has food stand, press box, a gate so you can charge money. And what is so wrong with keeping some history?

College players... big problem because not enough games are played. You can't ask Montclair, Paterson, Rutgers for their stud freshman pitcher & tell them that he might get 6 starts....college leagues are hurting us, no doubt. But a sit down with each college coach in the area wouldn't hurt...Give us your players & we'll expose them to some of the best national competition....again, maybe.

You need to set up 2 in-season tourneys with national competition. Maybe set up the final at Yogi Berra Stadium...but do it right, make the teams WANT to come back every year..I'm talking announcing games, hot dog stand, music in between innings, the whole deal.

I know it's not easy but you must start the season in the middle of May.....and make teams play ALL of their games. Did any team play all of their games?

Ed said why would the Musial want us? Great question..but I really believe that some, not all teams want to play the best teams. I'm sure that the Majors-Met League has the best teams so why wouldn't they want to disprove that? Merger...maybe or how about inter-league play on Sundays? Or to play more games how about doubleheaders on Sunday? No BP or infield, arrive 30 mins before game, home in 5 hours. How about getting the 20 best high school kids around & they MUST play in the 2nd game, each team has 2 HS kids & they must play in 2nd game, the whole game. This maybe gets more young players involved...if they know they are playing they will show up. No team has an advantage because each has to play 2 HS kids.

The first step is to be unified & tell the powers that be that the teams are voting on EVERYTHING, where the playoffs are held, how many games, waiver rules...EVERYTHING. Take back your league but you can only do it together.

Mark & Ricky, I was very flattered about your commissioner thoughts but the first thing I would do is take almost all of the power away from the league officials & put it in your hands...a commissioner should only steer the ship, you guys say where to go. That's what a good commissioner would do.

Keep talking & push for some changes...don't accept anything less.

Jon Vatcher

[ancienthurler55]

To clarify Ed's posting earlier about there being no "in season" meetings... I know there was at least one - because I was there as a rep for Cresskill.

I must admit - I came out of that meeting feeling pretty good about the league. I thought we dealt with a handful of issues regarding the playoffs calmly and fairly. .

Some of the managers from the other teams raised some issues - matters were discussed - and changes were made. I thought alot was accomplished.

I'm really not a "meeting guy" - I feel on the whole - meetings are usually a waste of time - especially when there's too many of them.

But if a meeting has a full and defined agenda - meetings can be effective - but - for the most part - I don't think lack of meetings is the problem.

On a separate note - I don't have a major problem with the playoffs in Haledon. Sure, the lights aren't great - but it's that way for both teams. The field is always in immaculate shape - and this year - I thought our tourny was run particularly fairly and efficiently. Angelo and Henry always do a very very good job. I - for one - appreciate their hard work.

As for no fans showing up - big deal. Would it be nice to have a hundred fans show up? sure. But the difference between having 10 and 50 fans there isn't that big a deal for me. I think most players care instead about field and playing conditions and tourny organization first and foremost. But as an alternative - I'm surprised nobody hasn't suggested Breslin in Lyndhurst as a tourny site. I understand they're getting new lights on the field this fall/winter - and the field is in good shape.

For me - the principal issue with our league is the players - and competition. The better our players are - the better the league and the competition. Recruitment -to me - is the most important thing. Someone wiser than me - suggested openning up to Essex and Union players - that might not be a bad idea. After-all the major leagues are stronger because they recruited players outside their immediate area.